Creating some Trust

[Samantha 'Sam' Lawrence]

I have a four year old Arab Popeye. We have had him for 2 and a half years. I go down and visit him everyday for an hour or two. He gets scared easily, and isn't very trusting. Never been abused or neglected. If you do scare him, he will either raise his head to literally 7 feet, or turn is butt to you, on very rare occasions he kicks. I am the only one he even remotely trusts. He is fine when I am riding him, but on the ground he doesn't trust me well. I have read that you can measure how much a horse trusts you by covering both eyes slowly and talking. Depending on how long you can keep your hands over there eyes without them retreating is how well they trust you. I can cover his eyes for about a minute, whereas my mother can cover them for twenty seconds.

I lunge him every Sunday, and every Saturday we spend 20 minutes in the paddock together.

Anyone have tips on how to improve his trust? I have no other idea's. But in a few weeks we (Popeye and I) are going to get private lessons together with a friend of our who trains endurance Arabians.

[.Rissa.]

Hey there Bacon!

Wow, two years is a long time! I am surprised he is still acting so spooky. I have never heard of the 'cover the eyes' trick, but I can see what you mean. There are many ways to gain a horse's trust. But, many ways too lose it as well. You mention he is fine under saddle and I take it you ride him a lot.

I would spend more time doing ground work. Sacking him out to things, making him walk over things on a line. I am wondering, since you said he turns his butt to you, that is a sign of disrespect and rudness. Only a horse more dominant turns his butt to another horse. It is a threatening gesture, and a dangerous one. A horse who throws his head high is either being disrespectful or fearful. But, you can always teach a head lowering cue for that.

What specific problems are you having? What does he spook at? And when he does spook, what do you do? And, I am just curious, how do you lunge him? And, does he ever offer to kick out at you while you do this?

Sorry so many questions, but, I need a little more specifications to help out. There is a big difference between a fearful horse, and a disrespectful horse, and they can seem quite similar.

[Samantha 'Sam' Lawrence]

I try to ride him 2 or 3 times a week. He is low man on the totem pole though.

He gets scared at things that make loud noises and sudden movements. When he spooks I talk to him, then lower is head and rub him, just to try and reassure him.

I lunge him, out in the paddock, while the others are in the barn. Hook him up to his lunge line. I don't use a whip, because he responds to kissing cues. When I want to change direction all I have to do is stick out the hand I want him to turn away from. He stays at about an 8-10 foot distance. Popeye is VERY smart.

He only kicks very, very rarely, usually only in the pasture at other horses, but he has kicked out at me once when I was getting him used to the saddle pad when he was 3.

I appreciate it

[.Rissa.]

Okay, he sounds like you have done a great job and put a lot of time in him. Of course, you can't prevent a horse from getting spooked, but you can teach him how to handle it when he does.

A really cool thing I do for my horses, I took from Stacy Westfall's methods of training. There are two kinds of sacking out: Rhythm and Random, lol. The Rhythm part is like, when a whip hits the ground over and over again. I don't use whips on my horses, but the noises they make the swishing sounds, are good to sack out too. Or, like taking the saddle pad on and off, on and off, on and off, until the horse is used to it.

A random sacking out is, when I will be doing something else, like sacking in rhythm, and then I just randomly jump or startle. It usually startles the horse the first few times. But what the horse really learns, is how to control his emotions. He learns that his spook level can go from really high, back to really low, and on his own.

I can explain it in more detail if you like =) Or have any questions. But that is what I would recommend.

[BaconCrockett]

I like the idea of random. I used it on Haylee because she is the exact opposite. She spooks when you are riding her but she doesn't when you are on the ground. She is completely bomb proof now.

Anyway thank you very much for helping!! Ofcourse he makes a liar out of me tonight. He was absolutely perfect, only spooked at a deer that ran into the fence. Poor Bambi.

Now with Moose. Do you have any tips for a horse that is great mannered with ground work, but extremely buddy sour when mounted.

She spent time from when she was 4 to 11 at a one horse barn, whereas now (for 9 years) she is at a 4 horse barn. She has gotten better as the years go by. Moose will buck, rear, spin, or do anything to get back to the other horses. We have problems at horse shows where we get ready to do our run, so we have to leave the trailer, she begins to act up. (I am kinda glad that she still can, because she is an older, yet fit, horse.) Or my mother will get leave the trailer with Bella to do her run, and she will act up, rear, or paw. When on trail rides by ourselves, on occasion she is good, she will buck, rear, etc. to get to the barn. Though she has never been successful on getting me off (I have mastered her fits, and mastered my seat). She is extremely buddy sour.

I went to a clinic at Richie Fishers that helped a little, where we gallop, in a circle, switching directions off and on, but not stopping. It really helped, keeping her under control. But sometimes it doesn't work.

Thanks Rissa!!!!

[.Rissa.]

Hmm, Buddy Sour is very tricky and hard to correct. I watched a video a while ago with John Lyons, and he addressed the issue, and I liked the way he did it. I just wish I could remember all of the details. He was really big on taking baby steps, so that the horse didn't buck, rear etc in any part of the training process, or, as much as possible.

But a certified John Lyons trainer, Keith Hosman has a lot of great articles. If they aren't free, then they are cheap. He addresses a lot of different issues, so check the site out! horsemanship101.com/Articles/. I think he has something for buddy sour, I know he has one for bucking and rearing as well. I have bought a couple articles of his. They are entertaining as he sometimes has a dry sense of humor, haha.

I wish I could help more, but that's all I got at the moment.

[Cara-Jean Kitchi]

Funny request, but could you please post up a photo of Popeye (his head anyway)? Two would be better. One face on and the other a profile. If I can get an idea of his personality, it would be easier to offer advice. Thanks.

[Samantha 'Sam' Lawrence]

I will update with a full body pic later since the pictures all got wiped out of my computer. I still have some other pictures from a few years ago.

It's to large for a post
Another
Popeye and Moose
Head
Sorry just had to add this cause she used to be this cute(Bella)

He has also greyed out much more. It's hard to describe him.

Popeye is a very outgoing horse. He is happy to see anybody walk in the barn, but is afraid of people that try to pet him (except me). He isn't a herd horse. Generally spends time on the other side of the pasture. Our vet describes him as Orally Fixated. Very lippy.

[Demeter Carr]

STRAIGHT, FLAT PROFILE: A horse who is very uncomplicated and learns easily.
MEDIUM JOWLS: Average ability to learn. (You can bring your horse way beyond average with intelligent education.)
SLIGHTLY ROUNDED MUZZLE: May be somewhat inflexible and take a little longer to learn new lessons.
PUFFINESS OR FULLNESS IN THE AREA AT THE TOP OF THE MOUTH: Indicates a stubborn streak. One should be careful not to get into fights with such, horses, as it will only make them more resistant.
LARGE, OPEN NOSTRILS, LOOSE AT THE BOTTOM AND FLARING AT THE TOP: Intelligent and an indication of a horse who thinks a great deal. If, however, the skin just above such a flaring nostril is loose, It can frequently indicate a horse who snorts excessively,and has a tendency to shy. It is difficult for them to change their ways.
LONG EARS: A tendency to be changeable and inconsistent.
ALMOND-SHAPED EYE: A cooperative and willing nature. Horse may be introverted and slightly standoffish until he learns to trust you.
WIDE BETWEEN THE EYES: Intelligent, with an ability to learn quickly. However, this type of horse may use his intelligence to take advantage of an inexperienced rider.

What does Popeye say to me?
He looks like a horse who wants to know everything about the world around him. He wants someone to trust, but he's not sure about what would happen to him if that trust was then broken.

He reminds me a lot of my Cedar, and it took me ages to earn his trust - though once I had it, it was unwavering.

How to earn his trust on the ground. Throw away the riding and the lunging (for exercise) for a couple of weeks, just work with him on the ground. If he spooks, remain at his side, keep your voice normal and laugh, letting him know there's nothing to be afraid of (don't allow it to go into that high-pitched squeaky way a lot of people go when they think they are calming their horse). Help him see you as the alpha mare and that you mean safety.